Don't leave concrit to this person EVER

[amalthia]

well for the first time in over a year I sent some concrit to an author. I enjoyed her big bang story it was good for one read but kind of forgettable and after some thought and talking about it with a friend we kind of figured out why it just didn't work for us. Well my friend was a bit too shy to contact the author herself so I decided since the author is decent to give it a try....

Guys, I figured out why people are leaving feedback to hate memes anonyomous posting places, after this response I'd be quite nervous about contacting an author to leave honest feedback..so basically do not give elless18 constructive criticism.

Here's the post. And the reason why many people would rather post their feedback to fandom secrets, spnsecrets, and hate memes (whichever version we're on now)

-----

I'm sorry, did I miss the rule that says a story must have conflict in it in order to be good? What's wrong with having total schmoop? I think you completely missed the point of my story.

Honestly, I don't have to defend a story a spent more than SIX months working on to you. I certainly didn't write it for you. I'm sorry that these aspects ruined the story so much for you that you felt the need to write and tell me everything that's wrong with it. It's people like you that dissuade writer's from posting at all.

In the future, I'd appreciate it if you kept your "constructive feedback" to yourself. Same goes for your friend.

--- amothea wrote:
Hi,

I enjoyed your story and I meant to send this sooner but kind of lost track of time.

I normally don't write to authors with constructive feedback because honestly if I have too many problems with the story I probably didn't finish or don't know where to start. And I kind of suck at this. I normally stick to shallow one line type of feedback.

But my friend and I were kind of talking about your story (over the phone) because we've been recommending stories to each other and she pointed out something I kind of missed but made a lot of sense. (and she was too afraid to write to you herself) But we both kind of agreed that the only thing truly missing from your story was a real conflict that would create dramatic tension. You have the writing skills, the character voices were engaging, but the lack of conflict of any sorts didn't help your story stand out per say.

I'm not sure how else to describe it but I'd just re-read an old DS9 story that was kind of a kidfic on the last part of the trilogy and the child was sweet and smart but she also threw tantrums and refused to obey and got herself hurt. And was a pest and it felt real.

I was also curious as to why Jensen was so shy about going outdoors or meeting new people?

Basically, by the end I felt like everything was too easy for the guys and honestly after dating awhile I don't think anything ever fell into place that easily, not even when I met my husband. So it's just little things like that that for a romance I'm willing to suspend disbelief but I think it would have been a more powerful story if there was some sort of conflict to overcome. Though I'm guessing you were probably going for Jensen being shy as the conflict?

I did enjoy your story and I think you're talented and I really appreciate that you shared your story with us.

Best Regards,
Amalthia

EDIT: I crossed out the hate meme part because not having actually read through them I'm not actually sure just how bad it really is or if it's anything at all like the SPN Secrets. I just heard that people were talking about SPN big bang stories there I assumed discussion was happening anonymously. I don't have time to verify and I don't personally like visiting hate memes so I crossed it out here because it's not relevant beyond the anonymous part and why some people may like it. However, I don't think anonymous posting should be an excuse to say hateful things.

Comments

[torachan]

Wow, yeah. :-/ Your email was very nicely-worded and easygoing and you said many times that you liked the story and thought she was a good writer, but she responded like you'd shredded her to pieces. Good grief.

[amalthia]

Yeah, I was kind of shocked by her response because I tried very hard to let her know what did work. this wasn't written to her in 2 minutes here.

[landshark]

wow. I read that story and I have to agree with you. I liked the set-up, but there was nothing to set it apart from 50 other stories I read last month, ya know?

Well, you tried, I guess. If she can't handle some constructive criticism, maybe she should just post with the comments turned off--oh wait, then she wouldn't get comments like "OMG BEST STORY EVER!!!1!"

*rolls eyes*

[amalthia]

Yeah, and with a story over 20k words you need something to propel it forwards you know?

[landshark]

Exactly. Sometimes you can get away with it in a shorter story, but yeah, not so much with a bigbang story.

And also, posting on a public comm (as opposed to a friends only journal) is probably a mistake if she can't handle some polite concrit o_O

[blnchflr]

Tangent, but it pertains to the issue to me: If the story had had a schmoop warning, would you have bothered to tell her about the lack of conflict?

(I'm guessing no - because the warning would have indicated that she was well aware that it was 100% schmoop, and that she had written it that way deliberately).

And obviously everyone would have benefited from a "pls no concrit" A/N.

[amalthia]

I still would have pointed it out because I've read schmoop before and good schmoop at that and it had something driving the story. I think schmoop without conflict could work for short stories maybe but not for anything over 20k words long.

[saekhwa]

I have to agree with you. No conflict for a 20,000-word story? It's difficult for me to stay engaged without something.

So her response was unfortunate, especially when it's clear how much care you took in yours.

I always feel like an odd cookie, though. I'm: feedback? Gimme, gimme, gimme, please?

But I worked in journalism, so I have skin like steel when it comes to stuff like this. My internship broke me of taking any concrit personally when the editor literally just tossed my stories and rewrote them. My heart slammed into my ribcage the first time, but I sucked it up, looked at it, and was: yep, I see now, and got better.

[amalthia]

I know what you mean. I also love getting feedback, I think all of it has helped improve my writing.

I think her response is unfortunate and probably reflective to how a small percentage of authors do respond and we just never hear about it because the readers just go back to lurking or never give concrit again.

[amalthia]

yeah I don't recall seeing a no-concrit note.

[grey853]

I never give negative comments unless the writer asks for criticism. That's especially true if it's in a public forum like LJ. Some writers are very thin-skinned and after all, who am I to say that their vision needs something more than what it has?

I'm just happy people are writing and sharing. If I don't like something, then I just don't read it or comment. If I do, I tell what I liked exclusively.

[amalthia]

Well that's one of the reasons I sent the message through the private message feature of LJ. I think next time I'll just not leave concrit for any author I don't already know. I don't have much time anyways. :( And certainly not once school starts again.

[facetofcathy]

I was cruising my Network, and I saw this post, and I had to stop and read. I've been posting reviews of all the SPN bigbangs I've finished, and I knew that I'd read this author's story, but I had to look up what I said about, as I couldn't remember what she'd written.

I enjoyed the story, enjoyed the characterization, thought the kid was tolerable and not too prominent. Damning with faint praise maybe, and bear in mind that I read very fast, so it wasn't a big commitment for me to read 30k of simple, gentle romance. I agree that the story is mostly just a character study and takes place in a too tolerant and easy fantasy world. Like a lot of the shorter big bangs, it's just a longish short story, not complex enough to be called a novella even.

I think the problem with unsolicited concrit is that the person giving the concrit is, by default, making some assumptions about the author and the story in particular that may not in any way be valid. I think that's what's happened to you here. I'm guessing that this author believes that she achieved what she set out to do in this story, and that's why her reaction to your email was so passionate.

To assume that all authors are looking to write to a given standard, to always want to improve, or to even ascribe to the same principles of what makes a good story, can get you into trouble. Lots of writers, good, talented, non-badfic writers, just want to tell stories that hit their own kinks, and those of their circle of readers, or bring to life a cool idea they had. They're comfortable with where they're at, and they don't want that challenged.

She says she thinks you missed the point of her story. Rather, I think you and she have different ideas about what a story needs to aspire to. I personally don't think either attitude is wrong, just different and wholly incompatible for critical discussion.

[amalthia]

Your post was actually really insightful and makes a ton of sense. I think next time I think about sending concrit and I don't know the author I'll ask if they want any or what their goals are for their story. Because you're right, I just assume all authors want to write the best story possible and do want to hone their craft and improve. I know that's how I approach writing.

Thanks for posting to this you really did give me some good food for thought. :)

[mllesatine]

This is why I think twice before posting concrit. When I do, I wait nervously for the author's reply because I think they will reaction like this person. And it never happened to me. Whenever I send out concrit, people were thanking me and even making changes to their stories.
But I think it say a lot that I still think they will react with insults or dismiss everything I said.

Pity that the author wasted SIX months on a story that isn't one. No conflict=no plot.

And really, you were very nice to this person.

[amalthia]

I also feel incredibly nervous about writing to authors when I do have something that wasn't perfect about the story. So far I've had positive experiences until this one. I'm also glad my friend didn't write to her. Hence the warning post about her.

[acari]

I am always so surprised when people post about bad reactions to concrit. I used to send tons of feedback like that and never received that kind of email back.

The author was very knee-jerk defensive when you pointed out several times that you liked her story. If I ever got such an email, I'd never read anything by that author again.

[amalthia]

I've also sent feedback before and never got a response like this. No response would maybe have been better...

[chase_acow]

That's too bad that she freaked out. I'd love to get con-crit on stories. I thought your note was really helpful and encouraging.

[amalthia]

I'll put you on the list of authors that would appreciate it. :)

[sakana17]

Wow. This disturbs me, because it's authors' reactions like this one that prevent readers from saying *any*thing about stories -- or simply saying things away from the authors. Which translates into zero feedback in some cases. All I can say is, not every author is like her! Some of us not only appreciate the time and energy a reader spends to read, think about, and write a reaction -- we *long* to know what worked and what didn't, so we can improve our writing. Writers who only want pats on the head need to include a note to that effect. Though, honestly, if a writer never wants a critical response to a story? don't post the story publicly. Once it's out there, you can't control readers' reactions, and some will have negative or critical reactions. And some readers may not be as polite as you were (you emphasize that you liked the story! jeez!).

Sorry, I'm ranting a bit. But this hit a nerve. Attitudes like this writer's drive me crazy.

[amalthia]

The funny thing is this is the first true concrit I've sent in over a year! for when I wasn't actively beta reading a story. I do have a greater appreciation for why communities like SPN secrets exist and why people are posting their thoughts on spn big bang stories over there instead of at the author's LJ. This author didn't have a no-concrit note or anything.

I was disturbed and quite upset by the post myself.

I know not all authors are like her. I've given concrit before and had some good discussions with authors about plot, tone, characterizations and it was fun. Because I got a greater insight to what they were trying to do and I think they got a readers perspective of what got through and understood.