Why your story isn't recced...
Mar. 8th, 2007 10:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Okay so your story is beta read, you're getting a ton of feedback, chances are I may have left feedback but I'm not reccing it, so what's going on?
There is a good chance you're hitting one of my biggest pet peeves. Posting a completed story over a period of days instead of all at once. If I find the story after it's all parts are posted there is a good chance I'll rec and feedback the fic...but lately because I am actively reading and looking for fics I'm running into this more often.
I rarely leave feedback for these stories and I'll probably never recommend the story unless enough years go by and I completely forget the author did that to the story. (but honestly, I'm not likely to forget because it gets to me on so many levels anytime I see the story I get upset all over again)
Now some people may be wondering..."but you recommend WIP..." yeah well I never said I was rational. For some reason WIP don't make me upset the same way. I wrote about this once trying to figure out why WIP work better than completed stories that are chopped into pieces...I think WIP have better story flow than completed stories that break off at an arbitrary word count number.
I guess for me I feel like the author is jerking my chain by not posting the entire story at once. It feels like a cheap ploy to gain more feedback and well this whole deal pisses me off. (I know this probably isn't the reason why some authors decide to post their completed fic over a period of days but I don't understand if the story is complete why not post it all at once and if it's not finished then why is the author saying it's complete?)
Anyway, I've been seeing this around a bit more lately and I'm baffled.
There is a good chance you're hitting one of my biggest pet peeves. Posting a completed story over a period of days instead of all at once. If I find the story after it's all parts are posted there is a good chance I'll rec and feedback the fic...but lately because I am actively reading and looking for fics I'm running into this more often.
I rarely leave feedback for these stories and I'll probably never recommend the story unless enough years go by and I completely forget the author did that to the story. (but honestly, I'm not likely to forget because it gets to me on so many levels anytime I see the story I get upset all over again)
Now some people may be wondering..."but you recommend WIP..." yeah well I never said I was rational. For some reason WIP don't make me upset the same way. I wrote about this once trying to figure out why WIP work better than completed stories that are chopped into pieces...I think WIP have better story flow than completed stories that break off at an arbitrary word count number.
I guess for me I feel like the author is jerking my chain by not posting the entire story at once. It feels like a cheap ploy to gain more feedback and well this whole deal pisses me off. (I know this probably isn't the reason why some authors decide to post their completed fic over a period of days but I don't understand if the story is complete why not post it all at once and if it's not finished then why is the author saying it's complete?)
Anyway, I've been seeing this around a bit more lately and I'm baffled.
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:22 am (UTC)I tend to avoid those because, well. I've been burned pretty bad by one. It started out fabulous, and I left feedback and then...then I had to just stop reading. The story went in a totally icky direction and I couldn't find anything positive to say at the end. Not one little thing. So..eh.
Though, if the author is posting the story every day, then I'm more open to it. It's when they drag it out over weeks that I start feeling deliberately toyed with.
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Date: 2007-03-09 06:02 am (UTC)the best way to describe it is they are killing the emotional climax in the story. (for me) But the strange part is in WIP it doesn't feel like that. I really think people write to a certain point for WIP and come to a natural stopping point but when you are breaking up a completed fic the stopping points don't feel natural and most of the times it just doesn't work.
I don't like getting worked up to a certain point then left hanging by the next day I've cooled off!
okay for some reason that sounded like an orgasm metaphor.
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:54 am (UTC)[grumpy]
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Date: 2007-03-09 06:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 05:38 am (UTC)Which is sad, because actually, I would kind of love it if everyone on my flist DID do something like that. Not re-posting their announcement five days in a row or whatnot, but tacking on a reminder about their latest story to the next two or three lj entries they happen to do. Because often I miss a day or two of lj and don't have time to get caught up, and then I miss stuff.
...and you know what, I think I am going to try and pimp this idea some more.
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:54 am (UTC)With LJ I think some people have weird concepts about organization and sometimes it's hard to find the stories, let alone the newest stories. Websites are also great for finding newer posts. There are multiple ways to keep the newest stories fresh on your LJ/website. Including small reminders for the next few days. (the newsletter also helps...I guess for me I figured if the story is good and care was taken in writing it and beta reading then i will get found, recommended, and people will read them years later and hopefully still send feedback)
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:51 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:54 am (UTC)It's not done as a "cheap ploy for feedback" at least in my case.
Partially just because it's easier -- the Heart's Desire stories for one are all so long I'd have to break them up into the parts anyways to post them and when I'm also posting to a few communities, it's just easier to do one part at a time.
Also, I've come to appreciate the format of a serialised story -- just like the cliffhangers at the end of some tv episodes. Sometimes I like doing something like that and really the only way to do so is to post a story in parts.
As well, there are people who don't have time to read a whole 30,000+ word story if it's posted at once, but can read a smaller part daily and so are more likely to read a story posted in parts and bookmark the long one to read later, if at all. The way I see it is posting in parts let's those people read it easier and for those who prefer to read a story all at once (as I do often myself sometimes) they can wait until the last part is posted and read it all then (as I do in those cases.)
I can understand maybe not liking this format, but being told I'm "jerking people's chains" and all does kinda make me feel defensive.
Oh and if I say a story is finished, it's finished -- if it's a WiP I'll label it as such.
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:58 am (UTC)I read very fast and 30k isn't really that long. I guess for me I like having the option to read it either in one go or over the course of a few days. I know some authors offer the single file version of their story and then post the same story a little at a time for the people who don't have time to read it. For me I like curling up on the couch and reading a long story in one go and feel it all at once.
The breaks interrupt the emotional climaxes of the story for me. But again, I'm just one reader out of many.
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Date: 2007-03-09 06:14 am (UTC)One of my pet peeves is people posting for a week or a couple days after a fic that they posted a fic, so, heh, I'd feel really uncomfortable reminding my flist to go and read it.
I don't have a lot of free time, and I prefer things to be broken up into smaller chapters; if I know that something is 30K or 50K, I might not end up reading it even if it's from an author I really love, just because I don't have that much time.
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Date: 2007-03-09 06:25 am (UTC)10k a day...that feels more acceptable and 3 days isn't such a long wait I think by the time anyone realizes there's a new story it's already all posted. :)
I also get that after writing such a long story you'd want to keep it active for a little while longer in people's memories.
It just kills me when I see some authors with a 30k story and only posting 2k words a day.
and for me this is a pet peeve not something that I feel rational about and I know that but I can't help feeling it. and I'm just one reader and I read fast and I want to read the entire story in one go, especially if it's from a really good author.
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Date: 2007-03-09 10:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-03-09 12:46 pm (UTC)Other than that? Shameless ploy for feedback.
I only read complete stories these days and I only post stories that are serialized (stand alone parts of a bigger whole) or finished stories.
I've left too many stories unfinished in the past to post anything from the dozen half finished stories I have on my hard drive. Even if a couple of them are over 100 pages already.
Re: Since I tend to be a...
Date: 2007-03-09 04:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 01:29 pm (UTC)I have to break stories into chunks or else they crash the version of eFiction I'm running. If I hit over 40,000 a chapter, it goes boom. So, yeah, I cut stories into semi logical chunks, and give each chunk one last proof before I post the part. Otherwise I'd never post anything because the larger story fiddled with all at once is pretty daunting. It's not a cheap ploy for feedback for me. I'd just never move shit off my hard drive if I didn't do that.
So uh. I'll be over in the corner sort of staring and wondering who else I've pissed off.
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:27 pm (UTC)what version of efiction are you running? because I've posted some rather hefty chunks of fiction in the efiction database for the Angst Archive.
I also don't recall you saying your story is complete until it's completely posted.
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Date: 2007-03-09 02:42 pm (UTC)Because, really? I am SO lazy. ^_~
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-03-09 02:49 pm (UTC)No, posting WiPs in chunks I understand. However, they usually have that "serialization" feel - each chapter wnds on a closing note or a "what will happen next?" feel. I've only done it once in SGA (burned myself badly in Buffyverse), and it was truly because the next part didn't exist yet. It was Accidents Happen, BTW. But I knew where I was going with that and in fact had the end written, so I was positive that I could turn out a chapter a day for five days.
I have a number of incomplete stories on my harddrive - 5 or 6, I think. And they will never see the light of day til they're done. OTOH, I have several serialized stories where each bit can stand alone, and I'm fine with that.
In short, grrrrr. Wait til you're done, and if you have to post it over 5 LJ posts, then do that. Readers (like me( would much rather you spam their flist than appear to be stretching it out for more feedback or just to create false momentum.
Ranty McRanty pants signing off. YMMV.
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:14 pm (UTC)I've learned my lesson about posting WIP...don't do it. Once I start getting some sort of feedback I feel paralyzed and can't write anymore. Of course I didn't realize that until after I'd posted a few stories and then wondered where did my momentum go?
Also backdating is a very useful tool in LJ. :) no need to spam any lists. Just backdate far enough and then mamke a single post with all the chapters listed.
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Date: 2007-03-09 03:33 pm (UTC)I did that once - posted my nano story (which was over 50k words) at a chapter a day, but it was done because otherwise I would have flooded my flist with posts, which isn't cool. It really wasn't a plea for more fb!
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:31 pm (UTC)To avoid spamming flist the only thing I can think of is to backentry the rest of the story but have all the parts listed in part one. So people will only see part 1 with the list to the rest of the story but only get one post about it.
Really, this topic is rather subjective because I know some people hate flist spamming and for me I don't mind if it's a completed story and each part is 10k words long. I'm rather understanding about that.
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Date: 2007-03-09 03:58 pm (UTC)I'm about to do it again at the end of the month, although I am only posting over a period of...five days or so? It's a 30,000 word story, so it would take multiple LJ posts anyway. I'd have posted them over a period of a day, but we signed up to post it over several days on one of the "seasonal" communities (
We thought, "Oh, okay, this is kind of long, let's not dump it on people all at once. Where are the natural chapter breaks?" And those (the natural breaks in the story) are where we divided the days. (The individual posts were at the reasonable stopping point nearest the halfway mark in the chapter, just to accommodate LJ. ) Then we saw that there were a lot of vacancies on the posting calendar for that community, and went for three days, rather than the two we'd originally planned, just to make sure days got covered.
*shrugs* I hadn't even *thought* about generating more feedback. I almost never think about generating feedback when I decide how and when I'm posting a story. (Yes, when I post links to various communities, then I think about it, but not before.)
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:42 pm (UTC)I don't think it should take 5 days to share a 30k story. 10k words a day would have it taken care of in three. Or you could backdate the story and have 1 post with the links to all the backdated entries.
I just know there are alternate ways to share larger story files and I rarely read a story or get back to it when I see that it's finished but the author didn't post it all so I can read it in one go. I know some people have less time but what I do is I save the story move it to my sony e-reader and read it during lunch and when I get home and I don't have time to convert each new part into an rtf to move it to my reader. I'd rather grab the stories that are completely posted and get it taken care of in one go.
I read fast, not joking about that I can finish a 1000 page novel in 4 days. I like reading longer stories in one sitting if possible. And by breaking it up makes it so I can't do that. So either I wait (in which case I completely forget about the story, which has happened if I don't know the author already) or I try reading it a bit at the time and just feel more and more upset as I reach the end of the chapter in 30 minutes and wonder why the hell the rest of the story isn't posted already. (I avoid option two because I know it'll piss me off and generally I like reading to be my happy place)
However, ultimately I realize it's the author's choice on how to present their story. However as a reader I gotta say it doesn't make me happy. I write stories and I like to post my completed story at once. I may break it up for easier reading but I make sure all the parts are avaiable at the same time. (I know people who like to read the last paragraph first before they'll commit to reading the rest of the story just as an example of the weird people I know) but I feel like it's a disservice to readers to not give them options or have the whole story avaible if it's finished.
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 04:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-09 04:05 pm (UTC)I've made exceptions for good stuff before, but nowadays as soon as I see "part x of ?", I usually don't even bother. I'm old and I can't hold story details together that long. Expecting me to re-read the whole thing every time an update is posted ain't happening. Once it's finished, yeah, I might go back and read the whole thing.
It does seem to be a growing trend, doesn't it? Wonder what's up with that? FanFiction.net influence?
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:07 pm (UTC)I really started to notice this when fanfiction.net came out...maybe it has had an influence. But apparently there are multiple reasons for authors not posting their fics all at once.
Organization is a key item and it looks like some LJ users have no clue how to organize their multi-part stories and it makes it very difficult for readers to find part 1 or get to part 2...I just think it's either ignorance or laziness. And there are stories getting posted that do use links that I see no reason to waste reading time trying to navigate a badly organized LJ. It sucks though.
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Date: 2007-03-09 04:06 pm (UTC)I don't often write anything long enough to need splitting into parts (I do write the odd, chapter a day, make it up as I go, WIP but I warn people what they are and I don't do them often; they're an indulgence fic for me) but when I have, I've always posted it over a period of time.
If I have the whole thing, complete and beta'd, there's no way I'd leave gaps of weeks between parts; that seems weird, but daily posting in chunks of around 5,000 on, say, a 30K fic; sure, why not? People don't always have time to read a very long fic in one go and stories tend to have natural breaks that make it easy to split them.
Do I do it for more feedback? I guess that's a factor, sure, but it's not a cynical, hold the readers hostage ploy. More of a marketing thing, maybe; you let the buzz grow, attract more readers ::shrug::
We all make our stories as attractive as possible (in theory...); clear font, double spaced, proofed... we're marketing them to be read and enjoyed.
Serialising a story isn't necessarily doing the readers a disservice. Would you really like to watch a TV show of 20 episodes in a marathon weekend session? Or would you like one episode a week with time for the anticipation to build, time to discuss developments, speculate about possible twists?
Nothing's ever going to please everyone but I think I'll stick to what I've always done with long, complete stories; break them up, post a chapter daily, provide links between chapters and to where they are in memories. People can then wait and read them in one go when it's all up or grab them as soon as they're available.
Or shun me ;-)
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:00 pm (UTC)i've done that before. :)
TV isn't the same because if you're watching it live the rest of the series is still either being filmed or edited...it's not finished. But I do know a lot of people who do not watch TV live, they wait for the DVDs and watch the show over the course of a weekend or two weekends.
Or would you like one episode a week with time for the anticipation to build, time to discuss developments, speculate about possible twists?
actually, I'm saving Prison Break, Lost, FNL, House, Pysch, and Ugly Betty to watch all in one go. Prison Break I noticed is a better show if I watch it in marathon sessions. I got highly annoyed with the cliffhanger endings. there are basically very few shows I'm willing to watch as they air and mostly because I know they don't do cliffhanger endings. Supernatural, SGA, BSG, SG-1, okay Heroes..i'm debating on saving up a few episodes on that show because I'm hitting the annoyed stage. Sure it's fun to speculate but generally with most tv I get annoyed about halfway through and just want to finish it up or stop watching. Sometimes it's nice to watch a show without all the speculation because then it verges on spoilers. When I saw Doctor Who 1 and 2 I had no clue what to expect and it was really exciting. Sometimes watching in a vacum has it's moments. :)
If I have the whole thing, complete and beta'd, there's no way I'd leave gaps of weeks between parts; that seems weird, but daily posting in chunks of around 5,000 on, say, a 30K fic; sure, why not? People don't always have time to read a very long fic in one go and stories tend to have natural breaks that make it easy to split them.
Keeping in mind I consider 30k stories short and can read those in under an hour....I don't see the need to break it up into 5k pieces.
So far the way that seems to make the people who do like a little bit of the story at a time and the ones that want to read it all at once is to provide a link to the completed story and then still post one chapter a day...
All I know is I don't rec stories that piss me off and seeing that a story is completed but not completely posted just hits that button for me. As a writer I don't do that to my readers and as a reader I don't appreciate the writers doing it to me. Not when there are other options out there. I do realize LJ does have the 10k word limit but I've seen authors backdate their entries and post all the links into one post. or they say they'll post one chapter a day but here's the complete story for those who want to read ahead...
If the story is still in beta reading process then it's technically not complete and if writers can't tell the difference between the two...i'm not sure I really want to read their stories. Assuming I remember to come back to them when they are completly posted.
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Date: 2007-03-09 05:53 pm (UTC)I did a poll on posting and everyone who answered voted for it to be posted in parts.
Which, okay, was all of 5 people, but that's like half the people who ever comment on my fic.
I don't know *why* they said that, but that's why I post in parts - audience request.
Posting all at once would be simpler, and require less thought
(since I try and get good act breaks)
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Date: 2007-03-09 07:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-03-09 06:26 pm (UTC)I don't see the big difference between doing that and the way TV shows are serialize. Moreover, I don't see the difference between posting a "completed" story in parts and the fact the Harry Potter series is 7 books long or the fact Jim Butcher, author of the Dresden Files series, had the first three books "written" before the first was ever published. Plus, posting stories like that harks back to an early period of literature where things were published as serials. Dickens and Hardy both published a number of their novels as serial installments in magazines over a period of YEARS. Did they probably have more written than they published? I would think - but serialization is a valid publishing format.
Is it a matter of reviews? Partially. You've got to be crazy if you think I am going to spend countless hours of my life penning some 20k epic and then post it all at once. People are super lazy - there is no way they leave feedback on individual chapters when they whole thing is post. Well, unless they are me. I DO leave chapter by chapter feedback on things because I think it's terribly unfair for someone to have spent loads of time on something for me to just write "LOL! Loved it! More!".
But beyond the review issue, even if something is "done", even if I say in an Author's Note that this one is mostly written, I subscribe to the "Author is God" theory of writing. A story isn't "complete", written or not, until the author posts the whole thing. I for one go back and make edits, sometimes the third or fourth round of editing, before new chapters go up so what gets posted isn't the same as what was "written" in the first place. So why write the whole thing before posting? Well, in my own writing, I often make edits that effect the entire story...deciding to move a plot point three chapters later or changing some detail I mentioned in chapter 2 of a 10 chapter work. If I didn't have the whole thing written before posting, I would have to go back and be constantly changing earlier posts and confusing the heck out of the readers.
I guess I feel like the author is free to do as they please. Personally, I will continue to post in parts and include the date of the next update. I tend to post one installment a week. If people don't like reading WIPs (which many of my readers don't), they know exactly when it will posted in its entirety and can read straight through then.
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Date: 2007-03-09 08:36 pm (UTC)Okay the 20k word epic will never stop being funny to me.
but seriously, this is how I think most authors feel when they post their stories that way, trust me the really good stories will get a lot of feedback at the end. Technically cool stuff can happen within chapters but if those chapters don't add up to an exciting story by the end....that's not a good sign. I like looking at the story as a whole and leaving feedback at the end.
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Date: 2007-03-09 07:15 pm (UTC)i would tend to think it might make a better read. you're right that it really needs to be broken up at natural points, so it reads well. but if it's a particularly long fic, i think there's a bunch of people who like to jump on the rollercoaster and ride it. and it really can be more fun to have that daily cliffhanger in there, that thrill when the new part is up. so hey, why not?
i'm not in favor if stringing it out over weeks and weeks, i will say that. daily, please. and if someone doesn't like that sort of thing, they can just wait a week, and then it'll be all there at once, they're not left hanging.
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Date: 2007-03-09 08:43 pm (UTC)There's a SGA story that I left feedback for but it'll probably take another two or three years before I forget how upset it made me at the time. Logically I know it's one of the best John/Rodney/Elizabeth stories ever but....yeah I got a lot of negative emotions tied up into that story and I need to let it go.
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Date: 2007-03-09 07:52 pm (UTC)Huh. We may cancel out on this particular little dog/pet peeve. Interesting.
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Date: 2007-03-09 08:02 pm (UTC)