amalthia: (Angel)
[personal profile] amalthia
Okay so your story is beta read, you're getting a ton of feedback, chances are I may have left feedback but I'm not reccing it, so what's going on?

There is a good chance you're hitting one of my biggest pet peeves. Posting a completed story over a period of days instead of all at once. If I find the story after it's all parts are posted there is a good chance I'll rec and feedback the fic...but lately because I am actively reading and looking for fics I'm running into this more often.

I rarely leave feedback for these stories and I'll probably never recommend the story unless enough years go by and I completely forget the author did that to the story. (but honestly, I'm not likely to forget because it gets to me on so many levels anytime I see the story I get upset all over again)

Now some people may be wondering..."but you recommend WIP..." yeah well I never said I was rational. For some reason WIP don't make me upset the same way. I wrote about this once trying to figure out why WIP work better than completed stories that are chopped into pieces...I think WIP have better story flow than completed stories that break off at an arbitrary word count number.

I guess for me I feel like the author is jerking my chain by not posting the entire story at once. It feels like a cheap ploy to gain more feedback and well this whole deal pisses me off. (I know this probably isn't the reason why some authors decide to post their completed fic over a period of days but I don't understand if the story is complete why not post it all at once and if it's not finished then why is the author saying it's complete?)

Anyway, I've been seeing this around a bit more lately and I'm baffled.

Date: 2007-03-09 04:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynvala.livejournal.com
I think most of the time 'completed' stories that are posted in parts (particularly those that are posted one new part a week) are done as a ploy.

I tend to avoid those because, well. I've been burned pretty bad by one. It started out fabulous, and I left feedback and then...then I had to just stop reading. The story went in a totally icky direction and I couldn't find anything positive to say at the end. Not one little thing. So..eh.

Though, if the author is posting the story every day, then I'm more open to it. It's when they drag it out over weeks that I start feeling deliberately toyed with.

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From: [identity profile] aerynvala.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-03-09 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-03-09 04:54 am (UTC)
luminosity: (Default)
From: [personal profile] luminosity
AMEN. I can understand a WIP. I can! And I'll wait and bookmark the story, etc., but if I read that it's finished, and the author will post...whenever.. screw that! There's enough fantastic fic that I'm reading these days that even if said story changes the face of fandom, I guess I won't be reading it *here*.

[grumpy]

Date: 2007-03-09 05:38 am (UTC)
astolat: lady of shalott weaving in black and white (Default)
From: [personal profile] astolat
Well, it *is* a ploy, and I admit that as a reader it drives me nuts and also that I tend to avoid them until they are done. But I have some sympathy for people doing it with a really long story that took them a lot of time, because lj is so ephemeral that stories can just vanish almost instantly, especially with a huge prolific fandom, and people feel more self-conscious about posting reminders saying "hey! posted story yesterday!" than about posting fresh content.

Which is sad, because actually, I would kind of love it if everyone on my flist DID do something like that. Not re-posting their announcement five days in a row or whatnot, but tacking on a reminder about their latest story to the next two or three lj entries they happen to do. Because often I miss a day or two of lj and don't have time to get caught up, and then I miss stuff.

...and you know what, I think I am going to try and pimp this idea some more.

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From: [personal profile] cofax7 - Date: 2007-03-10 05:44 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-03-09 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] delibby.livejournal.com
Yes! thank you! I usually avoid WIPs, but that's because I have issues. But having a story that's finished and dragging out the posting... that's just rude and mean and a ploy for feedback. Bad writer! No biscuit!

Date: 2007-03-09 05:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] delibby.livejournal.com
btw, check the Veritas discs you got from me. If the last disc is eps 12 and 13, excellent, if it's 8 and 9, please let me know. I'll get you the right files.

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From: [identity profile] delibby.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-03-09 06:03 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-03-09 05:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] logovo.livejournal.com
Breaking up a story like that made sense 10 years ago, when mailing lists where IT. Now, not so much.

Date: 2007-03-09 05:54 am (UTC)
wolfling: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wolfling
I've done this with the Heart's Desire stories (as well as other things in the past.)

It's not done as a "cheap ploy for feedback" at least in my case.

Partially just because it's easier -- the Heart's Desire stories for one are all so long I'd have to break them up into the parts anyways to post them and when I'm also posting to a few communities, it's just easier to do one part at a time.

Also, I've come to appreciate the format of a serialised story -- just like the cliffhangers at the end of some tv episodes. Sometimes I like doing something like that and really the only way to do so is to post a story in parts.

As well, there are people who don't have time to read a whole 30,000+ word story if it's posted at once, but can read a smaller part daily and so are more likely to read a story posted in parts and bookmark the long one to read later, if at all. The way I see it is posting in parts let's those people read it easier and for those who prefer to read a story all at once (as I do often myself sometimes) they can wait until the last part is posted and read it all then (as I do in those cases.)

I can understand maybe not liking this format, but being told I'm "jerking people's chains" and all does kinda make me feel defensive.

Oh and if I say a story is finished, it's finished -- if it's a WiP I'll label it as such.

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Re: p.s.

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Date: 2007-03-09 06:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hansbekhart.livejournal.com
I've done that once before, for a couple different reasons - yeah, it is a ploy for more comments, which I think is, in most cases, fair when it's a really long story that might've taken a couple months to write. Also, a lot of stories max out LJ's posting limits - once I had a chapter cut off right in the middle, after I'd already coded the entire goddamn thing, which was a pain in the ass. But the biggest reason that I felt okay doing it was that I was posting one part per day, there were only three parts (so it wasn't like there was a huge wait between parts) and each chapter was very self-contained, with beginning, middle and end, with slight cliffhangers to build suspense. I had to split the last chapter up into two parts because of the posting limits, but I think I did that on the same day, actually. When I started posting the story, I said in the header that there were three complete chapters and one would be posted per day, and I knew that most people would simply wait until the end to read it.

One of my pet peeves is people posting for a week or a couple days after a fic that they posted a fic, so, heh, I'd feel really uncomfortable reminding my flist to go and read it.

I don't have a lot of free time, and I prefer things to be broken up into smaller chapters; if I know that something is 30K or 50K, I might not end up reading it even if it's from an author I really love, just because I don't have that much time.

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Date: 2007-03-09 07:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calijirl5150.livejournal.com
I haven't offered to have ur e-babies in awhile for all the lovely fic yuo rec. so I figured I was due LOL

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From: [identity profile] calijirl5150.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-03-10 05:49 am (UTC) - Expand

Since I tend to be a...

Date: 2007-03-09 12:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zorrorojo.livejournal.com
cynical bitch, I'm going with the cheap ploy for feedback explanation. I can't see any other reason. Oops, I just thought of one. Say the story is over 100K and you're actually using a beta. With me so far? Your beta is slow but promises to be done within the next few days. Then you could probably post what has been beta'ed so far. Now, I'm only talking final beta-- the last one that should catch typos your eyes have skimmed over. An early beta working on plot and characterization, pacing, scene order etc. wouldn't fit this scenario.

Other than that? Shameless ploy for feedback.

I only read complete stories these days and I only post stories that are serialized (stand alone parts of a bigger whole) or finished stories.

I've left too many stories unfinished in the past to post anything from the dozen half finished stories I have on my hard drive. Even if a couple of them are over 100 pages already.

Date: 2007-03-09 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaganthi.livejournal.com
Does it really piss people off *that* much?

I have to break stories into chunks or else they crash the version of eFiction I'm running. If I hit over 40,000 a chapter, it goes boom. So, yeah, I cut stories into semi logical chunks, and give each chunk one last proof before I post the part. Otherwise I'd never post anything because the larger story fiddled with all at once is pretty daunting. It's not a cheap ploy for feedback for me. I'd just never move shit off my hard drive if I didn't do that.

So uh. I'll be over in the corner sort of staring and wondering who else I've pissed off.

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Date: 2007-03-09 02:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tzi.livejournal.com
Actually, with us, I think it's a case of, "Okay, tizzy's proofed *this much* and she's working on the rest, so... go!" =D That and there's a limited amount of time in the day. With us, though, you KNOW it's done and you KNOW we're gonna get it up. *contemplates* Mostly because the effort it takes to space stuff out is really really too MUCH effort, if we've got it ready to go.

Because, really? I am SO lazy. ^_~

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Date: 2007-03-09 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yin-again.livejournal.com
Oh, man - I hate that. I feel manipulated. Grrrr. If I'm interested in the story, I'll wait til it's finished and then read the whole thing.

No, posting WiPs in chunks I understand. However, they usually have that "serialization" feel - each chapter wnds on a closing note or a "what will happen next?" feel. I've only done it once in SGA (burned myself badly in Buffyverse), and it was truly because the next part didn't exist yet. It was Accidents Happen, BTW. But I knew where I was going with that and in fact had the end written, so I was positive that I could turn out a chapter a day for five days.

I have a number of incomplete stories on my harddrive - 5 or 6, I think. And they will never see the light of day til they're done. OTOH, I have several serialized stories where each bit can stand alone, and I'm fine with that.

In short, grrrrr. Wait til you're done, and if you have to post it over 5 LJ posts, then do that. Readers (like me( would much rather you spam their flist than appear to be stretching it out for more feedback or just to create false momentum.

Ranty McRanty pants signing off. YMMV.

Date: 2007-03-09 03:33 pm (UTC)
wolfshark: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wolfshark
Here via [livejournal.com profile] yin_again.

I did that once - posted my nano story (which was over 50k words) at a chapter a day, but it was done because otherwise I would have flooded my flist with posts, which isn't cool. It really wasn't a plea for more fb!

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Date: 2007-03-09 03:58 pm (UTC)
that_mireille: Mireille butterfly (Default)
From: [personal profile] that_mireille
I did this once--but it was only semi-completed; I was revising as I posted, and since it was my first story in the fandom and I hadn't been able to find a beta, I was also begging people for concrit that I incorporated into the later parts of the story.

I'm about to do it again at the end of the month, although I am only posting over a period of...five days or so? It's a 30,000 word story, so it would take multiple LJ posts anyway. I'd have posted them over a period of a day, but we signed up to post it over several days on one of the "seasonal" communities ([livejournal.com profile] spring_with_xan) because there were a lot of blank days on their calendar.

We thought, "Oh, okay, this is kind of long, let's not dump it on people all at once. Where are the natural chapter breaks?" And those (the natural breaks in the story) are where we divided the days. (The individual posts were at the reasonable stopping point nearest the halfway mark in the chapter, just to accommodate LJ. ) Then we saw that there were a lot of vacancies on the posting calendar for that community, and went for three days, rather than the two we'd originally planned, just to make sure days got covered.

*shrugs* I hadn't even *thought* about generating more feedback. I almost never think about generating feedback when I decide how and when I'm posting a story. (Yes, when I post links to various communities, then I think about it, but not before.)

Date: 2007-03-09 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huzzlewhat.livejournal.com
Here via [livejournal.com profile] yin_again, too. I did that once for a long story, broke it up into six sections and posted one section a day for four days straight, then posted the last two on the fifth day. And after seeing this post, I had to think back and reconfigure why I did it. It was on a high-traffic bulletin board, which is different from LJ, I think. This was the SciFi bulletin board, back about five years ago; there was a limit on the size of individual posts, and a post didn't get bumped up if a new comment was made to it, so stories would disappear from the first click-through three pages after a day, never to be seen again. It wasn't about prompting more individual pieces of feedback, but I guess in a way it was making sure more people saw it.

Date: 2007-03-09 04:05 pm (UTC)
ext_8600: (Default)
From: [identity profile] reedfem.livejournal.com
What irks me more than a completed story being doled out over the course of a week is an endless WIP that even the author seems to have no clue what to do with and they don't even provide links to the other pieces of the story. Or the unlabed WIP. Those are the worst.

I've made exceptions for good stuff before, but nowadays as soon as I see "part x of ?", I usually don't even bother. I'm old and I can't hold story details together that long. Expecting me to re-read the whole thing every time an update is posted ain't happening. Once it's finished, yeah, I might go back and read the whole thing.

It does seem to be a growing trend, doesn't it? Wonder what's up with that? FanFiction.net influence?

Date: 2007-03-09 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janedavitt.livejournal.com
Gosh. I hadn't realised it was such a hot topic.

I don't often write anything long enough to need splitting into parts (I do write the odd, chapter a day, make it up as I go, WIP but I warn people what they are and I don't do them often; they're an indulgence fic for me) but when I have, I've always posted it over a period of time.

If I have the whole thing, complete and beta'd, there's no way I'd leave gaps of weeks between parts; that seems weird, but daily posting in chunks of around 5,000 on, say, a 30K fic; sure, why not? People don't always have time to read a very long fic in one go and stories tend to have natural breaks that make it easy to split them.

Do I do it for more feedback? I guess that's a factor, sure, but it's not a cynical, hold the readers hostage ploy. More of a marketing thing, maybe; you let the buzz grow, attract more readers ::shrug::

We all make our stories as attractive as possible (in theory...); clear font, double spaced, proofed... we're marketing them to be read and enjoyed.

Serialising a story isn't necessarily doing the readers a disservice. Would you really like to watch a TV show of 20 episodes in a marathon weekend session? Or would you like one episode a week with time for the anticipation to build, time to discuss developments, speculate about possible twists?

Nothing's ever going to please everyone but I think I'll stick to what I've always done with long, complete stories; break them up, post a chapter daily, provide links between chapters and to where they are in memories. People can then wait and read them in one go when it's all up or grab them as soon as they're available.

Or shun me ;-)





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Date: 2007-03-09 05:53 pm (UTC)
beccaelizabeth: my Watcher tattoo in blue, plus Be in red Buffy style font (Default)
From: [personal profile] beccaelizabeth
I write long - about 30,000 words per story (and one story per year thus far)
I did a poll on posting and everyone who answered voted for it to be posted in parts.
Which, okay, was all of 5 people, but that's like half the people who ever comment on my fic.
I don't know *why* they said that, but that's why I post in parts - audience request.
Posting all at once would be simpler, and require less thought
(since I try and get good act breaks)

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From: [personal profile] beccaelizabeth - Date: 2007-03-09 08:10 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-03-09 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] empressvesica.livejournal.com
I wandered over here from a link...and while I sort of understand where you are coming from, I agree with a lot of what [livejournal.com profile] janedavitt said.

I don't see the big difference between doing that and the way TV shows are serialize. Moreover, I don't see the difference between posting a "completed" story in parts and the fact the Harry Potter series is 7 books long or the fact Jim Butcher, author of the Dresden Files series, had the first three books "written" before the first was ever published. Plus, posting stories like that harks back to an early period of literature where things were published as serials. Dickens and Hardy both published a number of their novels as serial installments in magazines over a period of YEARS. Did they probably have more written than they published? I would think - but serialization is a valid publishing format.

Is it a matter of reviews? Partially. You've got to be crazy if you think I am going to spend countless hours of my life penning some 20k epic and then post it all at once. People are super lazy - there is no way they leave feedback on individual chapters when they whole thing is post. Well, unless they are me. I DO leave chapter by chapter feedback on things because I think it's terribly unfair for someone to have spent loads of time on something for me to just write "LOL! Loved it! More!".

But beyond the review issue, even if something is "done", even if I say in an Author's Note that this one is mostly written, I subscribe to the "Author is God" theory of writing. A story isn't "complete", written or not, until the author posts the whole thing. I for one go back and make edits, sometimes the third or fourth round of editing, before new chapters go up so what gets posted isn't the same as what was "written" in the first place. So why write the whole thing before posting? Well, in my own writing, I often make edits that effect the entire story...deciding to move a plot point three chapters later or changing some detail I mentioned in chapter 2 of a 10 chapter work. If I didn't have the whole thing written before posting, I would have to go back and be constantly changing earlier posts and confusing the heck out of the readers.

I guess I feel like the author is free to do as they please. Personally, I will continue to post in parts and include the date of the next update. I tend to post one installment a week. If people don't like reading WIPs (which many of my readers don't), they know exactly when it will posted in its entirety and can read straight through then.

Date: 2007-03-09 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterlive.livejournal.com
i would do that.

i would tend to think it might make a better read. you're right that it really needs to be broken up at natural points, so it reads well. but if it's a particularly long fic, i think there's a bunch of people who like to jump on the rollercoaster and ride it. and it really can be more fun to have that daily cliffhanger in there, that thrill when the new part is up. so hey, why not?

i'm not in favor if stringing it out over weeks and weeks, i will say that. daily, please. and if someone doesn't like that sort of thing, they can just wait a week, and then it'll be all there at once, they're not left hanging.

Date: 2007-03-09 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/
That is so funny, because I will read a multi-post story, no problem, but I will NOT read a WIP except by accident. Then if I'm tricked into reading a WIP, I'll be annoyed enough that chances are I won't finish it and I won't rec it either.

Huh. We may cancel out on this particular little dog/pet peeve. Interesting.