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[amalthia]

Methods of Manipulation: Heatherly's Post and that Queasy Feeling by icarusancalion This is the post that helped me understand why I felt so uneasy reading Healtherly's post.

Comments

[karamarie-mckay.livejournal.com]

I think she has the right idea, but I think it's a damned shame she had to drag Scientology into it. There's nothing quite like making over-the-top, dramatic comparisons between posts about fandom and real life abuse to persuade an entire broad segment of readers to ignore the content in favor of rolling their eyes at the wank. Granted, it's a nice change of pace from the usual "This is like rape!" and "She sounds like Hitler!" but it would have been better in terms of overall fandom reception if she'd just stuck with making her points without hauling out her work/education creds, Scientology, and est. Her points are valid; her method of getting them across is going draw fire.

Kara

[amalthia]

I think someone pointed this out in response to her post in the comments and icarus has already responded much better than I could have. Technically, she could have used any other number of organizations that use brainwashing techniques. (the one I'm most familiar with is the army during boot camp) but if she's most familiar with cults because she studied them then it makes sense she'd draw her examples from those organizations.

I think the main point of her essay is that heatherly used classic brainwashing tactics in her essay. Or at least that's what I got out of it.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*sad sigh* I didn't want to drag out the logic textbook when I knew more about cults and that info was readily at hand.

I've had to deal with cults most of my life so it's not extreme for me, it's the first thing I think of, part of my every day life. My mother's still believes, so I have to deal with that kind of heavy manipulation every time I call home. She was a top salesman for a corporation and a top-notch recruiter for Est.

A Washington Post reporter who had worked on Capitol Hill interviewed my mom. Afterwards she called me, sounding a little uncomfortable. "Your mom's really manipulative, isn't she?"

Icarus

[karamarie-mckay.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see how it wouldn't strike you as extreme if this is something that you're used to seeing in your real life. Myself, I don't bat an eye at some of the stranger reinterpretations of religion out there because that's something that I'm used to hearing.

As I said to Amothea, I don't think you're wrong in what you said, or that your description of the manipulative nature of Heatherly's post is off the mark. I just think that there will be folks who choose to breeze right by the point you're making so that they can flog the illustrative example. Fanfolk are good for that kind of thing.

Sounds like your ma ought to get together with my ma. They'd either get along famously or kill each other after fifteen minutes.

Kara

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

They can have tea. *g*

You're probably right, but personally, after the last month I could use a few less comments. The whole "writing responsibily" thing is a dead letter. No one is changing how they write, there are no changes to our warnings, and there's no fandom backlash. So it's just standing on soapboxes and announcing our opinions to the air.

I notice heatherly hasn't replied to a single negative comment. /wry

Icarus

[wyrdfae.livejournal.com]

I finally read this heatherly post and mostly I was like wow... "because outsides will think..." sounds a lot like "because god said ..."
and the two phrases seem to have the same effect on me.

anyway, I am not posting to talk about his. I am still trying to figure out what "TW" stands for. you said something about the season finale but I have no idea what you are talking about. Did you get into that cherry wine again?

[amalthia]

Torchwood!!!! :) lol sorry I was kind of trying to be lazy there.